|
|
Post by leeenfield on Mar 18, 2010 2:46:22 GMT 1
What's the story on the Indian "upgraded" MkI guns?
Does anyone have any pics, or info?
Did they machine the receivers, or was it a case of putting a Mk4 or reprofiled MkI barrel on the receiver?
Is there a change to the sights when shortening the barrel length?
I tried searching, but came up with a single pic in an unrelated thread...
|
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 18, 2010 17:49:39 GMT 1
LE,the Indian lightwieght MKI conversions are MK3/1  All the ones I have seen are 60's dated. Mine are - (Ex Lithgow MKI) 63 dated SAF (Small Arms Factory Kanpur) (Ex Enfield) 62 dated RFI (Rifle Factory Ishapore)  New Indian made woodwork inc MK4 butts were fitted.  Lightening machining to the body included 'dimples' to the front of the mag well and reduction of material from gas ports.An added item was new formed barrel 'ears' to cradle the barrel.  Barrels on these are an Indian made MK4 and a shortened and lightened MKI.  Other Indian upgrades that can be sometimes seen on these Brens is that the trigger axis pin has been bushed.All in all they are a nicely done conversion (shame the brazed up bipod legs are often seen on MKI bipods).  I'm looking for a MK4/1,MK2 conversion if anyone has one ?  ATB Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by leeenfield on Mar 19, 2010 16:02:59 GMT 1
Thank you Kev, You've just confirmed that I've located an Inglis RFI FR 3/1.
If I can raise the cash, I might have a markings variation for you to add...
|
|
|
|
Post by peregrinvs on Mar 19, 2010 23:21:44 GMT 1
As ever Kevin I am highly impressed - where on earth do you find these things?  On a more general note, does anyone have any hard information on how many / what sort of Brens are still held in India in usage or storage? Cheers, Mark PS. Idle speculation: what are the odds of some of the above making it onto the UK deact market in significant quantities at some point in the future? |
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 20, 2010 1:06:28 GMT 1
Thank you Kev, You've just confirmed that I've located an Inglis RFI FR 3/1. If I can raise the cash, I might have a markings variation for you to add... Very nice I hope you get your hands on it  It seems quite a few of these MK3/1's went to Canada via Westley Richards in the UK.They were shipped in the smaller Indian transit boxes that stowed the Bren body and both barrels separately.The chests were tripple use - Vickers Berthier,Bren and 7.62 lmg. Can you post some pictures if you get it please ? ATB Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 20, 2010 1:25:55 GMT 1
On a more general note, does anyone have any hard information on how many / what sort of Brens are still held in India in usage or storage? Cheers, Mark According to the last time I checked with Janes they are still making their version of the 7.62 L4 Mark,at any rate they are still offering new ones for sale. Go to ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Weapons&lang=en and go down the list and click on GUN MACHINE 7.62 MM 1B The MK3/1's (AFAIK) came into the UK quite a few years ago,they still turn up now and again though. ATB Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 21, 2010 13:17:02 GMT 1
As a side note on the Indian 7.62mm Brens, those converted from 303 MK3's are - GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1A IMG 15GA After the converted 303's the Indian's produced a new built 7.62 Bren.  Designated - GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1B IMG 16GA  As new made guns there are no magazine lip discs on the receiver.The ejector block on Indian 7.62's was the same as the UK L4A4 type,but the flash hider was their own pattern with elliptic ends to the slots compared to the squared off UK design.  ATB Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by woodsy on Mar 21, 2010 20:27:39 GMT 1
Hi Kevin. Yet another gem from your collection. Out of curiosity, does the mag fit more firmly in the new-made version than it does in the L4 conversions? |
|
|
|
Post by peregrinvs on Mar 21, 2010 21:39:55 GMT 1
According to the last time I checked with Janes they are still making their version of the 7.62 L4 Mark,at any rate they are still offering new ones for sale. Go to ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Weapons&lang=en and go down the list and click on GUN MACHINE 7.62 MM 1B Thanks for that - very interesting. I'd never have guessed the Bren (postwar variant) was still being made; or rather a straightforward production run can be ordered if you have the authority / money. I have a soft spot for Indian small arms, so I'd happily give a deact MM 1B houseroom. Cheers, Mark |
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 21, 2010 23:48:03 GMT 1
Hi Rod,the new made Indian 1B's mag well has enlarged\worn at about the same rate as my other used L4's.
The only L4 that there is no play in the magazine well is a DHH commercial conversion that has only been test fired.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Mar 22, 2010 1:20:55 GMT 1
I have saved the best one until last ! ;D (This one will test your 'soft spot' for Indian small arms Mark  ) Another Indian converted Bren but this time the conversion is of a MKIm Bren. Designated - GUN MACHINE 7.62MM 1C IMG 17GA  As can be seen in these pics (taken in the rain) things have taken a turn for the worse in the conversion programme with the finer detail and finishing touches ! Remember this one Tom ?  As this has a later designation than the new made 1B 16GA and the state of the conversion I am guessing it may be a training aid ? Can someone enlighten me on this please ?  It was a Beltring about 5 years ago ? , I kept waiting for the price to go down but someone bought it before it reached a price level I wanted to pay........where is it now ? I would love to have a better look at it and take a few photos to find out a bit more about it. ATB Kevin |
|
|
|
Post by leeenfield on Mar 22, 2010 16:26:07 GMT 1
Wow,
I guess recalibrating the drum sight would have added another order of parts to the supply catalogue...
|
|
|
|
Post by peregrinvs on Mar 23, 2010 11:21:13 GMT 1
I have saved the best one until last ! ;D (This one will test your 'soft spot' for Indian small arms Mark Oh I think it has a certain sort of rough and ready charm. I'd give it space in my collection - although admittedly only if it was at the lower end of a plain vanilla WWII .303 Bren sort of price - which I assume it wasn't? Cheers, Mark |
|
|
|
Post by britplumber on Apr 8, 2010 13:58:43 GMT 1
Kev, Have you seen any Enfield guns converted to 3/1? If they did, how did they apply the markings seeing as the later guns simply had Mk1 ED 194? on the right side.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kev on Apr 8, 2010 18:54:39 GMT 1
Hi Chris,the bottom one in this pic is a 42 dated Enfield. The left hand side has had the ED logo and Bren MkI filled in and ground flat although you can still see some pock marks.  ATB Kevin |
|
)