Intresting Bren mk1, Strange, possible experiment?

[britplumber]

Has anyone got the book, 'WEAPONS OF THE WWII TOMMY'?

If you have, look at the Bren mk1 (modified) on page 137 onwards.

Notice the receiver is marked Bren mk1 which is correct for a DD Enfield gun, but not an Enfield Modified gun.

It also isnt correct for an Inglis Bren mk1m as there is no 'm' present.

The milling around the mag catch is correct for a DD mk1 but not for either Inglis or Enfield modified guns.

The shaping of the rear of the receiver would be correct for a Enfield DD or an Inglis DD or modified gun.

The front end is either mk3 type or an Enfield mk1m front converted to mk1/3 by the Indians.

I'm leaning towards the Idea that this is a gun wielded together from 3 different guns, a mk1 rear end (probably Inglis), a Enfield mk1m centre section, and a Enfield mk3 or Enfield mk1 subsequently converted to mk3/1 front section.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[Kev]

How about a picture for those of us who don't have the book Brit ........please ?

[Kev]

Indian MK3/1 Brens usually have added on barrel location ears/horns welded on.

Have had a peek at a borrowed book and it looks like a MK3 front end to me As for the rest of it,it doesn't make a lot of sense ! Also has a MK2 lower and an Aussie barrel carry handle sleeve ;D

Well spotted Chris

The book in question also states that the MK2* tripod is post war which is wrong !

[Richard Fisher]

As previously mentioned, David Gordan - the author - is a member of this site so perhaps he can comment further.

Richard

[Kev]

Ooops no offence ment about the tripod,but would be interested to find out some more info about the Bren.

[sapper]

I'll be seeing Dave next month at the "Battle of the Sigfried line" I'll ask him there if he hasn't responded by then

[Kev]

Any news on this hybrid Bren ?

[britplumber]

Bump, as I think he's knocking about!

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Just found this thread so sorry for not getting involved earlier....

The Mark I was cut at one time in it's life and then put back together. Being torch cut to get into the USA prior to 1986, the receiver would have been from a single weapon or it would never have been possible (in the practical sense) to make it a live full-auto weapon again. We fired it live on a few occasions but its new job at the time was for reenacting with wood-tipped blanks which it cycled very well. Due to gun laws at the time, it had to be deactivated again when the manufacturer gave up his license. At that time, he ground off his maker mark and numbers along with the original numbers sad to say.

Original to the receiver is of course the Mark I stampings and numerous broad arrows so this would not have been an Inglis weapon. It was FTR'ed in 1949 which was fortunately marked and remained on another location on the receiver.

As for barrels, I really wasn't trying to photograph it with the one it was issued with. I have eight Mark I pattern and five Mark II pattern examples that I keep for spares with the live gun. Likely picked up the closest nice one handly when I was shooting book photos. As you no doubt can see in the book, the chapter is for basic information on the common accessories and main differences between the Mark I and Mark II for those that don't have an in-depth reference library.

Any questions, fire away and I'll try to answer them. As for the Mark 2* folding "airborne" tripod, I was not privy to research that Tom was uncovering at the time we went to print. We discussed it quite a bit afterwards and I think it still hasn't been determined when and where units first received issues other than for trials. Being such, it really still would not be considered a wartime store as there were a number of things made and dated that never became operational during the war.

[britplumber]

So, The rear part of the receiver is definatly 100% 1940 Enfield receiver ( a DD, not mk1m so would have a serial number between A1 and about D9999). The middle part is almost surely Enfiled mk1 modified and the front must be from a mk3, so your gun must be made of 3 different receivers.

The front part of the receiver was never made in that way at the time the rear part of the receiver was made. Its either a very unique Bren or 3 different ones, Do you have any other photo's to help us Identify it?

[horsa (David Gordon)]

The Bren is a bit messy right now as we had a WWII vehicle rally recently. Had it on my jeep and we did a lot of four wheeling on a specially engineered jeep track that required proper working low range. Lots of fun and extreme climbs out of muddy bogs. I show my jeep but still like to use it as it was intended.

Will take some shots of the Bren as it is later today (your tonight) and will get them posted. My speculation was the weapon being a Mark I M as it obviously doesn't have any of the very early Bren production features.

[horsa (David Gordon)]

[Kev]

Looks like it is three different MK's of gun that have been welded together as Brit plumber thought.

MK3 front

MKIm middle

MKI from the mag catch back

[horsa (David Gordon)]

To get the into the USA (way back when) they had to be cut into three pieces so picture the receiver in the earlier message with TWO cuts. Cut number one was at the front edge of the barrel release and you can see the weld going diagonally in the close up shot of that section. Cut two was the very back bit where the body pin goes to hold the lower to the upper. It was also a diagonal cut and the welding is visible in its close up shot.



Shot above shows where these torch cuts were located.

Couldn't this have been a plain Mark I M that had the front horns and other minor changes done to it in 1949 when it was FTR'ed?

[Kev]

Hi David,what are the marks on the receiver here ? (red line)
Looks like it has been planished ?
Also something that looks like a crack / split ?