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Post by Richard Fisher on May 26, 2008 21:44:33 GMT 1
Good Evening All, I have been going through some of my collection photos this evening and thought some of these MGer accoutrements might be of interest. If people know anything more about the scale of issue or periods of issue, of the gloves and mask in particular, I would be interested - photos of their use would be great! Cape, Machine Gunners  Mask, Machine Gunners  Gloves, Machine Gunners  and the outside  Thanks, Richard |
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Post by woodsy on May 28, 2008 9:33:38 GMT 1
Very nice items Richard! ;D I have seen a cape before, but never the mask and gloves. Other than being obviously WW1, and presumably winter issue in France, I have never seen them mentioned before, or seen them in period photos.
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Post by reme245 on May 28, 2008 18:00:39 GMT 1
Richard
Are some of the surviving capes of Australian manufacture or interwar.
Those of us who have been in the in the hobby a long time will remember that a large quanity of these capes appeared on the market some years ago. All were in unissued condition and none that I saw had any manufacturers labels or dates.
If it were not for the quality of manufacture they could even have been more recent reproductions.
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Post by Richard Fisher on May 29, 2008 19:41:38 GMT 1
Very nice items Richard! ;D I have seen a cape before, but never the mask and gloves. Other than being obviously WW1, and presumably winter issue in France, I have never seen them mentioned before, or seen them in period photos. Hi Rod, The gloves are, I believe, asbestos-containing-materials for the carriage of the gun barrels so not necessarily a purely winter item. "Gloves, M.G." are mentioned in some quite late manuals as well (1930s) but I think their design varied and the woollen mittens with the trigger finger may well be a later design but I have yet to find out. The mask is particularly interesting and I initially wondered whether it was for use in pillboxes or other emplacements to cover the face of the MGer in the loophole. Regards Richard |
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Post by Richard Fisher on May 29, 2008 19:44:07 GMT 1
Richard Are some of the surviving capes of Australian manufacture or interwar. Those of us who have been in the in the hobby a long time will remember that a large quanity of these capes appeared on the market some years ago. All were in unissued condition and none that I saw had any manufacturers labels or dates. If it were not for the quality of manufacture they could even have been more recent reproductions. There are a number of Australian-manufacture capes around and I have a variety of these: Some have Australian stampings but are of the 'British' material while some are of a different (Australian?) material and have Australian Military Forces buttons. I also have some with British markings and these are unissued as well. It is worth remembering that the Cape, MG actually appears in small arms training manuals as late as 1939. Richard |
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Post by joesweeney on Oct 15, 2011 2:14:17 GMT 1
Richard,
Nice accoutrements--Just surfed in to this site.
The Cape, Machine Gunners was pattern sealed on 19 June 1914 with RACD pattern 8066/1914 "Capes, DM Machine Gunners" (DM meaning Drab Mixture).
Somehere I have the pattern info on the gloves but needless to say they were pattern sealed prior to jan 1915.
The first Issue instructions I could find were for the BEF in GRO 502, 1 Jan 1915, which called out 2 capes and 2 pairs special gloves per MG detachment. This was followed be GRO's 1542 (29 Aprl 16) 1574 (14 May 1916) and 1778 (4 Sept 16). These GROs defined:
Capes---8 per Bde MGC, 4 per Bde MGS, 4 per Lewis Detachments, 2 per Hotchkiss Detachment.
Gloves---8 pairs per section of 4 guns per Bde MGC, 4 pairs per section of 2 guns per Bde MGS, 4 pairs per section of 2 guns per Lewis Detachment, 2 pairs per section of 1 gun per Hotchkiss Detachment, and 2 pairs per Mortar LTMB.
These GRO's were still affect in Jan 1918.
The "Mask, Machine Gunners" was RACD pattern sealed on 3 May 1915. The first issue instructions I found actually pre-date the pattern sealing with GRO 786 (19 April 1915) which said that 16 were authorized per Cavalry Reg't and Infantry BN as supplies become available. This GRO was supplemented by GRO 1543 on 29 April 1916 which further stated that masks were authorized at 4 per Gun in Coys and Sqdns.
Other Theatres may have had different issues scales.
I have nice Cape with Paper label and the mask too, but have never found the gloves.
As for photos few and far between for the capes and I have never seen a photo for the mask in use and only a few references in some of the CDS/SS documents. The mask was actually designed for use with the SD cap.
Take care,
Joe Sweeney
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Post by Richard Fisher on Oct 15, 2011 17:08:06 GMT 1
Hi Joe,
Many thanks for that information. I've followed your informed posts on the Great War Forum for some years. Thank you for coming here.
If it's okay, do you mind me using that information on the website?
Thanks,
Richard
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Post by joesweeney on Oct 16, 2011 21:18:58 GMT 1
Richard,
No problem on the use of the info.
take care
Joe Sweeney
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