Thompson info needed - please!

[Peter Wells]

I don't have any ref. material on the Thompson so am unable to get any info on my piece.

Any help re. date of mnfr, purchasing country etc. etc. will be greatly appreciated. ;D

Details:
1928A1 marked Auto Ordnance mnfr, sn AO29049, horizontal fore-grip, both sling swivels underneath (ie. no Brit conversion), Cutts comp.

All round a very ordinary gun but it's MINE!

Thanks in anticipation.

[missingsomething]

I would have to see photos of the serial number area and stock.... There are no real records that I have found that date the 1928 models or the later M1 and M1A1's...... but the 1928A1's were discontinued in 1942 and superseded by the M1, so yours would predate that. After doing a little more reading I would say it was a late '41 gun. Any markings on it or inspector marks could also narrow the manufacture date.

AO manufactured 324,000 guns and I have never seen any records of sales and to what serial numbers went with what contract....

I would love to see pictures though.....

[woodsy]

Iwould tend to agree with the dating. I would place it in the December 1941-January 1942 period. There are no proper records in existance for Auto-Ordnance production figures but the estimated total AO production for all Thompsons (M1928A1, M1, and M1A1) is reckoned to be 253,140. Savage made far more guns than AO and consequently AO guns are more desirable. Sadly, there is no way to determine the initial customer. Let us see some pictures please Peter.

[Peter Wells]

Thanks Guys.

Will take some pics asap and see if I can impose on Kevin to post them for me. I am, however, battling with a new phone which doesn't want to talk to my PC so must resolve that first.

As far as SA use of the Thompson is concerned, I have seen pictures of our troops in the Alamein area (Libya, N Africa) in late 1941 and 42 with 1928s with vertical grips and 50rd drums. They were apparently much favoured for night patrolling. I also have an M1 or M1A1 lower, acquired locally, which has the Brit style sling swivel on top of the butt. This may prove use of the later models by our guys during the Italian campaign or post war.

Cheers for now.

[woodsy]

The use of the M1/M1A1 models by NZ troops in Italy is well documented in several photographs, even though NZ never purchased any. It would appear that there was a lot of issue of weapons, vehicles, etc in Italy to the Allies from US & British stores. Most of this equipment was left in Italy at large collection points for later disposal or shipment back to the US/UK. Whilst NZ bought everything home form the Pacific, only original NZ issue weapons came home from Africa and Italy (apart from the inevitable souvenirs!) ;D

[Peter Wells]

At long last - gave up on the new phone which still won't talk to my PC so reverted to camera. Here are pics of my 1928A1 courtesy of Kevin. I would guess the 'S' on the fore-end signifies a Savage replacement part?
Sorry for the poor quality - my problem not kevin's!

[missingsomething]

Nice...... "S" would indicate Savage.... not uncommon for the old girls that saw combat to be repaired somewhere along the line. Maybe why it doesn't have the sling swivel conversion anymore?

[woodsy]

The rounded S on your fore-end indicates Savage manufacture at their Utica, NY, plant. A square S indicates manufacture at their sister plant, Stevens, at Chicopee Falls, Mass.

After the war Savage-Stevens operated from the huge Chicopee Falls factory on the banks of the Connecticut River. When I was there in 1979 the big plant was well closed and they had shifted to a much smaller factory in Westfield, Mass.

[Peter Wells]

Thanks for info guys. The gun shows signs of hard campaigning but no abuse. Must have been to the armourers at some stage of her life. The butt appears original with no indication of top sling swivel fitting.

The other thing is that there is no 'US Property' stamp behind rear sight. Does that imply a pre- or early-war purchase rather than lend-lease?

[missingsomething]

Here is my 2 cents.....

As far as I am aware, the only guns that were stamped "US Property" were the Lend-lease guns.

My gun also has no "US Property" stamp and as far as I can gather was either a UK or French contract gun.

Your gun was either a contract gun of came off a USGI somewhere along the line. Its sad that most of the US guns have some kind of serial number history and the WW2 thompsons have almost none

[Peter Wells]

Thanks for information/confirmation Rod & Craig. Maybe one day somebody will find the records.
eg. I recently received copies of some records found in our National Archives, unearthed by a fellow we use for that purpose, relating to our 1935 order for .303" ZGB33 guns from BRNO giving full details of the order, serial numbers of guns, spare parts supplied, shipping details etc. so a lot of info is hidden away waiting for a patient soul to dig it out. Hopefully other countries are just as lucky.
Cheers for now.

[Kev]

May 20, 2009 9:51:18 GMT 1 Peter Wells said:

I recently received found some records found in our National Archives, unearthed by a fellow we use for that purpose, relating to our 1935 order for .303" ZGB33 guns from BRNO giving full details of the order, serial numbers of guns, spare parts supplied, shipping details etc.

Can you give any details Peter ? sounds very interesting !
ATB Kevin

[Peter Wells]

Hi Kevin

Check your e-mail for copies of some stuff later today/this evening.

Cheers

[Kev]

Look forward to it Peter.I need to email you aswell.

[mkvii]

WB is Col. Waldemar S Broberg, the head of the Hartford (later renamed Springfield) Ordnance District from July 1941 until June 1942, although his stamp continued to be used up until November. Shows it was accepted by the US Ordnance system, although the US MODEL 1928A1 showed that anyway. All AO Bridgeport guns were so marked. Savage parts are often found in these guns as the Bridgeport factory did not make all the parts themselves. Originally the lower frame (fire control group) was numbered to the gun as well although many were mismatched in the post-war rebuild programs.