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Post by woodsy on Jun 10, 2009 8:49:45 GMT 1
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Post by NZ L1A1 Collector on Jun 10, 2009 11:02:57 GMT 1
What a stunning addition to your collection. Nice to know there's one in NZ now.
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Post by Kev on Jun 10, 2009 12:54:06 GMT 1
Don't know anything about Stens but as Kevin has said it looks stunning ! Nice one Woodsy  |
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Post by missingsomething on Jun 10, 2009 14:11:06 GMT 1
As previously stated...... Fabulous.....
What are the markings on the mag well housing? Whats the manufacturer?
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Post by woodsy on Jun 10, 2009 21:15:17 GMT 1
The top of the mag housing has STEN MK I and on the underside SMC (Singer Manufacturing Company of Glasgow, the only manufacturers of the Mk I) and the serial number. The left side of the trigger housing has a Broad Arrow and a couple of inspectors marks. Interestingly, the butt mounting plate is a machined forging (visible in the last photo) that was very quickly done away with on later marks and replaced with a stamped plate.
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Post by woodsy on Jun 10, 2009 21:20:01 GMT 1
Thanks Kevin. It has been in NZ for two or three years and I gut it from a guy in Auckland. It was a real surprise to me when it turned up for sale. BTW I sent you an email about that L4 bag. I will resend it.
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Post by missingsomething on Jun 11, 2009 2:04:29 GMT 1
The top of the mag housing has STEN MK I and on the underside SMC (Singer Manufacturing Company of Glasgow, the only manufacturers of the Mk I) and the serial number. The left side of the trigger housing has a Broad Arrow and a couple of inspectors marks. Interestingly, the butt mounting plate is a machined forging (visible in the last photo) that was very quickly done away with on later marks and replaced with a stamped plate. Well, I feel smarter...... ;D I guess they made about 100,000 before they started making the MkII. |
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Post by woodsy on Jun 11, 2009 8:52:58 GMT 1
200,000 were made but the first 30,000 were ordered to be destroyed in 1943, and many were converted to the later Mk I* pattern. The remaining guns were destroyed after the war.
A possible scenario for its survival (I like this theory ;D) is that it may have been sent to France with an agent for resistance work, been stashed away from German eyes, and subsequently sold in Switzerland after the war. I could always scratch 'Louise' (Violette Szabo) or 'SOE' into it to help lend an air of authenticity!
It is widely believed that the Mark I actually saw no combat as it was largely replaced by the Mark II by 1942 when the Allies started to send raids to foreign shores. The Mark II was approved for production while the first Mark I order (100,000 guns) was underway in mid 1941.
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Post by Peter Wells on Jun 11, 2009 9:31:02 GMT 1
That really is an awesome addition Rod. Well done.
No Mk1s here in South Africa as far as I know.
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Post by missingsomething on Jun 11, 2009 12:13:08 GMT 1
200,000 were made but the first 30,000 were ordered to be destroyed in 1943, and many were converted to the later Mk I* pattern. The remaining guns were destroyed after the war. A possible scenario for its survival (I like this theory ;D) is that it may have been sent to France with an agent for resistance work, been stashed away from German eyes, and subsequently sold in Switzerland after the war. I could always scratch 'Louise' (Violette Szabo) or 'SOE' into it to help lend an air of authenticity! It is widely believed that the Mark I actually saw no combat as it was largely replaced by the Mark II by 1942 when the Allies started to send raids to foreign shores. The Mark II was approved for production while the first Mark I order (100,000 guns) was underway in mid 1941. Hey Woodsy..... I love you man... You make me read ;D OK, According to Skennerton's figures Singer made 100,000 in '41, at the end of '41 Fazakerley had a contract to make 208,000 Mk.1's but it is states that they are not sure if they ended up as Mk 1's or not. Then in late '42 there was another contract for 100,000 with Singer for Mk.1's but again they are not sure but that Mk. 1* may have been made. Also noted are that at the beginning of '42 Singer had a contract for another 100,000 but it is not noted what mark they produced. I was wondering where you found out that 30,000 were destroyed? Cheers, |
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Post by Kev on Jun 11, 2009 16:16:24 GMT 1
Woodsy if your Sten was SOE you had better start calling it a COW or CALF  |
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Post by woodsy on Jun 11, 2009 21:44:35 GMT 1
Hi Craig While I have the utmost respect for Ian's books (I have several) and his researching skills, his SAIS series is, by neccessity, fairly superficial. I find that Peter Laidler's book 'The Sten Machine Carbine' by Collector Grade is pretty much the last word for depth of research. By virtue of his job, Peter had many more doors open to him than Ian could achieve on his periodic trips to the UK. According to PL there was a total of 200,000 Mk I 's made and 100,149 Mk I* as based on contracts awarded to Singer (the only manufacturer of the Mk I series). The change to the Mk I* was made sometime during the second (100,000) Mk I contract. In July 1943 the War Office issued a recall for destruction of over 237,000 Stens because of rolled body tube problems, and this order also included the first 35,602 Mk I's even though their body tubes were of the solid drawn variety. I am pleased I am providing the impetus for you to read! All good collections are based around good libraries! The loader arrived the other day and it is very tidy. Go find a stock! ;D |
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Post by woodsy on Jun 11, 2009 21:53:23 GMT 1
That really is an awesome addition Rod. Well done. No Mk1s here in South Africa as far as I know. Thanks Peter. While it is a nice item, I think your ZGB33 takes the cake! |
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Post by woodsy on Jun 11, 2009 22:00:13 GMT 1
Woodsy if your Sten was SOE you had better start calling it a COW or CALF I tested it when it arrived (historical research ;D) and the mediocre results due to jams made me think of something more in the swine family! Unfair of me really as the Chinese ammo I used was extremly soft in the brass and deformed on feeding. |
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Post by missingsomething on Jun 11, 2009 22:06:11 GMT 1
Oh well... another book to buy  As for the Skennerton books, I am familiar with the SAIS series but he also has a couple of books on production numbers and contractors for British small arms during WW2, that is where I got the numbers from. I am not doubting your numbers or trying to impeach your character Just wondering where the facts came from..... I always find it amusing that with the same figures there are several authors that come up with other "explanations" for the same thing. Still.... a nice find no matter how you look at it. |
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