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Post by leeenfield on Mar 9, 2010 3:13:38 GMT 1
I searched (or attempted to) and don't get any joy on the Mk4 Bren...
I get that there are BREN MkI, Im/I*, II, II/1, 3 & L4(Family) Brens, but was/is there actually a Mk4?
I understand that there may be confusion a the Mk3 Bren seems to have utilized the Mk4 barrel?
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Post by peregrinvs on Mar 9, 2010 10:36:09 GMT 1
There was a Mk4 Bren - it was a lightened version of the MkII in the same way that the Mk3 was a lightened version of the MkI.
However, only a small amount (250?) were made as trials pieces and the Mk4 wasn't put into full production. I doubt there are many to be seen outside of museums or Kevin Groom's personal collection. ;D
Mark
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Post by leeenfield on Mar 9, 2010 16:52:20 GMT 1
OK,
I don't get how the Mk3 is a derivative of the MkI, but the MkII is not?
I understand that EFD made most/all of the Brit Mk3s, and only a few exp/trials MkIIs, but continued production of the MkI/I*.
Is the difference between the MkII and Mk3 based strictly on the Mk3 continuing the lightening cuts pattern of the Mk1?
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Post by britplumber on Mar 9, 2010 23:27:22 GMT 1
The Mk2 is the final simplification of the Mk1 originally made at Enfield. The Mk2 was sub contracted to the Daimler/Monotype Corp and Enfield continued production of the Mk1 untill 1944 when it switched to MkIII production. The Mk3 is more like the Mk1 because of the machining practices used to make it lighter which Enfield still had available. I would imagine the Mk4 would have been intended to be contracted to the Monotype group but as Enfield were producing enough Bren Mk3s and the tide of war was turning in favour of the allies, it was never mass produced. ( I think the original Mk4 was a conversion from Mk2 where as the Mk3 is a new build gun)
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Post by leeenfield on Mar 10, 2010 1:33:35 GMT 1
So a Mk4 would be a MkII receiver with extra machining; while a Mk3 is a new "brother" to the MkII from the same MkI parent....
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Post by britplumber on Mar 12, 2010 16:02:35 GMT 1
That sounds like a good way of putting it!
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AlanD
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by AlanD on Mar 14, 2010 5:30:30 GMT 1
My understanding is that no MkIV Bren's were ever made. This was confirmed on my last visit to the Royal Armouries Library, where I came across some correspondence on the Bren which categorically stated this. Has anyone seen an example in the old Pattern Room collection? There could be a one off trial's example?
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
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Post by Kev on Mar 14, 2010 9:03:53 GMT 1
 Part number - BE 9333 ,introduced in List of Changes 18th July 1944. LoC August 7th 1946 abolishes it. ATB Kevin |
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Post by leeenfield on Mar 16, 2010 16:42:49 GMT 1
Hmmn,
I have Canadian armourers instructions from 1955?? (IIRC) refering to MkI, II & 4 screw thread patterns and spring info...
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Post by Kev on Mar 16, 2010 18:07:36 GMT 1
Yes there are plenty of references to parts for the MK4 such as in LoC's and the 1969 Woolwhich Inspectorate of Armaments publication ' A brief history of the Bren light machine gun'  But nothing in the way of an illustrated parts list that I have seen (unless Tom has a hoard of them !) I have seen printed figures from documents giving none produced to the figure in the BGS of 250. Not sure if a trial batch would go up to 250 ? I hope Peter Laidler will throw so more light on the MK4 when the book is eventually published. ATB Kevin |
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Post by britplumber on Mar 17, 2010 15:59:51 GMT 1
Here are some of the known conversions to Mk4 spec, Note that none are NEW but are conversions of Mk2s.
T4853
U3353
U3878
U4324
Cheers, Chris.
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Post by Kev on Mar 17, 2010 18:32:54 GMT 1
Here are some of the known conversions to Mk4 spec, Note that none are NEW but are conversions of Mk2s. T4853 U3353 U3878 U4324 Cheers, Chris. I was going to leave the serial number info for Peter Laidler to impart in his book as the info has come from his list. ATB Kevin |
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