Help with South African Vickers Information.

[mg34dan]

Did the South Aficans use the same linked 7.62 NATO (.308) ammo with their converted Vickers and their FN MAGs? It doesn't seem cost effective to develop a unique link for their converted Vickers and not have other uses for it.

[missingsomething]

Cant answer your question. But they are similar enough, that I don't see why they wouldn't work.

Vickers 7.62 link (left) M60 link (right)



M60 (L) Vickers (R)



M60 (top) Vickers (below r)

[Peter Wells]

Hi Guys
When the conversion was first done, we used the standard MAG/BG34 belt but they were too flexible (on the horizontal plain) and had a tendency to cross-feed. This could be overcome by applying some tension to the empty belt - not a viable solution obviously.
The links shown in your pics Craig were based on the M60 links but with the tab at the 12 o'clock position rather than 3 so the vickers extractor would not foul the tab. As was said it wouldn't be a good idea to have different links for vickers and MAG58 so we redesigned the MAG feed mech to use the Vickers links and,together with some other mods, now call it the MAG79 - which can still use the MG34 belts.
Even though the vickers is retired, some current issue MAG ammo box labels are still marked with 'Vickers link'. Can send pics in need - label and MG34 belt in use.
Cheers for now.

[missingsomething]

Thanks Peter, would you happen to have some pictures of the Mag79 feed area to see what mods were done?

[mg34dan]

Thank you Peter for verifying my supposition.

FYI for everyone in the US. SOG International is offering .308 ammo on Vickers links:

www.southernohiogun.com/non-dealer/ammunition/308-military-ammo.html

Those ammo boxes are cute.

[Peter Wells]

No problem Dan
Unfortunately I don't have ready access to MAGs nowadays but will try to make a plan.
Thanks for the link but it really burns my rear end to see our surplus ammo on sale in the USA when we can't get it here at any price
Cheers

[mg34dan]

Peter; Thank you very much for your information. This topic actually started over on 1919a4 dot com and I overflowed it here looking for some answers. Well, I posted your response over there and it stirred up some additional questions. Since I am an expert at cross posting, the following is a posting from 1919a4 dot com delving deeper into the subject of Vickers .308 links that maybe you have some answers to:

Very interesting explanation, but raises many questions, especially the question of why have none of the MAG79/Vickers links have ever shown up in the US in any quantity if they were issue with the SA MAGs? I have several thousand alleged SA .308 Vickers links, but are they actually MAG79 links? Would be nice to know how to tell the difference.
The Vickers .308 links are identical to M13 links with the tab moved to the side. Since the MAG58 preceded the M60, what links or belts did the early MAG58s use and when were they altered to use the M13 links? When were the .308 Vickers conversions done, which must have been after the introduction of the M13 link which raises the question of how the .308 Vickers link is so close to the M13 link in design?
I use both M13 and DM1 links with my MAG58 and will try the Vickers links some time, which should run fine. I am interested to know what alterations to the MAG feed was done to accommodate the Vickers or MAG79 links? I suspect it was only to the feed tray rather than to the mechanics of the feed parts in the cover.
Lot of gaps in the SA fellows info leading to lot more questions of what is the history of the Vickers links.
Maybe LeGendre can shed some light on this........

Bob Naess

[Peter Wells]

Hi again Dan & Bob
Let's try and answer your queries Bob.
1) For starters, the links for the MAG79 and the 7.62mm Vickers are identical and cannot be separated from each other. All mine are marked '7.62mm R1M1' (edit: incorrect - see my later erratum of 11/11). They are identically packed in those 200rd brown plastic cases with a feed-tab - 4 ball,1 tracer - but some are marked 'Vickers Disintegrating' and others not. Contents are identical.
2) These links are scarce here too - the reason is that all cases and links (supposedly) are back-loaded to PMP and re-cycled. The degree of paranoia existing in present and past regimes prevents people from jeopardising their pension by lifting things.
3) The Vickers conversion was done in the mid 1970s and to start with, we used the MAG58/MG34/MG42 belts unsuccessfully as I explained. By the time the feeding issues were understood, the M60 links were ubiquitous and we probably got some from Israel to play with
4) The conversion of the MAG58 would probably have been limited to increasing the length of belt pull to compensate for wider spacing vs. the MG34 style belt. Unfortunately I don't have access to both models (58 and 79) to check the differences. Both models may be able to handle the disintegrating links - I don't know.
Cheers for now.

[mg34dan]

Thank you Peter for your assistance. I'll pass on this information to Bob Naess.

[Peter Wells]

Erratum - my post of 5 Nov in which I stated that all my links are R1M1.
I got to another batch of links earlier and, lo and behold, found some 'M1A1' and 'M1A2' links. Some subtle differences in finish is all that is noticeable between them. I noted three distinctly different style markings on the R1M1 links - primarily in the font size used.
Cheers

[mg34dan]

Thanks again Peter for your information.