Canvas WWII Vickers Spares Case

[horsa (David Gordon)]

I've had a bit of luck in acquiring one of the canvas WWII produced Vickers spares cases and was wondering if anyone knows any details about them since they don't turn up very often. This is essentially used for the same purpose as the wooden spares chests from both World Wars and possibly a WWII copy of the leather version produced during the Great War.

I'd also be very interested in knowing contents and placement if anyone (TOM...) has that information. I can best guess where many of the items from the wooden WWII version would fit but don't know for sure what was actually included.

Thanks in advance,

David

[Richard Fisher]

Is it the one shown in this photo?

www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/images/collection/acc-spares.jpg

or different; I think the one in the photo was only used very limited for the Vickers but was mainly for the Lewis.

Richard

[tom]

Hi David
it was also proper to the Hotchkiss Portative as well as the Lewis, The WWI version just had leather straps rather than canvas/webbing ones, if I remember right. I don't have the list for the Vickers but I do have a 1928 amendment that lists its Hotch' contents along with those for the Lewis.

The document also covers the Lewis Bat' box, Lewis Holdall, Wallets Lewis No. 1 and 2, Vickers Parts and tools box, Vickers case and Vickers Wallet.

Nice find anyway.

ATB

Tom

PS just had a quick look and the 1918 Lewis Handbook also lists the contents. The Mk I bag was all leather, the MK II canvas bodied But with either leather or canvas straps and bits.

Intro LoC is 18200 of 1915 for the bags, also has description of alterations... LoC 18419 of 1917 list the contents... Infact theres quiet a bit on the bag which I didn't know... All these d**n LoCs I harvested from the P Room...

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Hey Richard,

The bag looks to be the same one in the photo you linked. I'd seen that shot before but no details related to it.

Tom, the nomenclature on the bag reads "Bag Spare Parts And Tools M.G. Mark III" with maker "H. PTY LTD" and 1943 date. Inside the main flap there is a Broad Arrow with a single character above and below. One appears to be an "M" which normally equates on British uniforms and equipment to something being issued (as opposed to made) in 1944. Typically the issue codes will be the same as year produced or within a few years of production date. When the code is absent, it usually would indicate the item wasn't ever issued. I only mention that as I'd wonder about this item's history with it being made and issued so late into the war when the Lewis and other earlier MGs wouldn't be pressed into service as much.

[tom]

Hi David
More poking about has found a 1918 LoC (may have actually come out 1919 but dated 1918) 21893 for a Bag, spare parts and Tools, M.G. No 1 Mk III and no. 2 Mk III. Theres a note that the No. 2 would eventually supersede the No. 1 so after a certain date they would have dropped the No. 1 and 2 bit from the nomenlecture at some later date.

Inter war the bag went into obsolescence but the last ref I have found to it. mid to late WWII is of it with a "N" for Naval stores.

The Lewis was heavily used by the Navy and especially the merchant navy and wasn't made obsolete until well post war, Also the Australians (Army and Navy) had to use them long after they became a rarity in British service, and not just for their home guard. Something with a 1943 date could easily be from a 1941 or earlier contract.

I know theres some Aussie Lewis Holdalls in circulation (not got one myself) with WWII dates.

ATB

Tom

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Lewis guns mounted on merchant ships for air defense is something I'd not thought about since it was later dated. I know they used as many guns for shipping defense as they could get earlier in the war and makes sense that they would still have them in service for the duration. Gives me more leads to follow so much appreciated.

David

[tom]

David
having heard back from my webbing guru it seams your bag is Aussie,
"PTY is short for Proprietary, the Aussie (but also South African) equivalent of U.S.'s "Inc."

And they did use ground Lewis for a awful long time after the UK nominally stopped due to their Bren shortage...

ATB

Tom

[horsa (David Gordon)]

I'd speculated it could be from OZ even though I wasn't seeing typical Aussie markings on the case and it's construction seems like other British gear I have. But the adjustable shoulder sling webbing has traces of the rust red/brown colored threads found in some of their other self-made gear. I see it a lot on Bren spare barrel bags they made. I need to check my old copy of Saddle Up and see if it is covered in that book since lots of other obscure Aussie local-made webbing appears in it.

[tom]

There it is, page 77 of Saddle Up!, looks dead like you described and the Legend says "Vickers MMG Spare parts bag". So unless its a mistake the Aussies must have extended its use (anyone got a set of Aussie LoC?) to the Vickers. Unfortunately theres nowt in the text about it. The Aussie Vickers IPL Richard sent me doesn't cover accesories. (bum!)

ATB

Tom

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Yep, just looked it up in Saddle Up and that is the bag. But not to scale with the other items in the shot as this is almost the size of the wooden chest and has a sling not shown in the book. Also there are numerous open pockets inside which vary in size from perfect for the metal parts tins to holding a feedblock. It also has a secondary inside flap with swivel buckle latch to cover a single large pocket that is all under the main flap.

That book has always had shots of rare and odd items but is sometime really limited in what text is used to describe it. Unfortunately seems the case again on this item.