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Post by snowie on Dec 2, 2005 15:50:37 GMT 1
On page 52 of "Guns of the Empire" by George Markham, there is a picture of a Bren gun taken during exercises.
On the flash hider,slightly forward of the point where the taper begins, there is clearly seen a double row of small holes drilled radially through the assembly.( I would guess that there would be 8 holes in each row).
Can any member tell me what purpose these would have served?
I have never seen this feature on any other flash hider assemblies.
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Post by britplumber on Dec 2, 2005 17:01:30 GMT 1
sounds like the original barrel assy on the ZGB33/pre production BREN.
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Post by snowie on Dec 2, 2005 18:07:14 GMT 1
Now that you mention ZGB 33, I looked up some pictures of that particular gun and noted that these have the radial holes drilled in the flash hider assembly as well.
Another picture was of a Bren gun basically as we know it but stamped "LEHKY KULOMET ZGB VZ 33" which also had these holes in the flash hider.
I would agree that these holes were an early production feature from the original design.
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Post by Kev on Dec 2, 2005 19:13:55 GMT 1
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Post by snowie on Dec 2, 2005 19:32:41 GMT 1
Thats a fine detailed picture - does this weapon have the original flash hider fitted?
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Post by Kev on Dec 2, 2005 20:55:13 GMT 1
They are both ZGB 33's but diferent types  I think the one you are refering too is different again regarding the location of the holes in the flash hider ? |
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Post by snowie on Dec 2, 2005 21:40:58 GMT 1
The gun shown in your picture looks the same as the one in the picture that i have, unfortunately not enough detail can be seen to say what what type or model it is. ( the caption to my picture - taken in 1935, says its a Bren gun - no more no less).
I would agree that the position of the holes is different to your picture - the ones I refer to are more on the taper of the shroud.
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Post by britplumber on Dec 2, 2005 22:09:36 GMT 1
The Bren was named so (un-officialy somewhere between July '35 and Oct '35) but the gun as we know it, wasn't completed until 1937.
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Tim
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by Tim on Dec 3, 2005 1:02:02 GMT 1
Re this particular feature , if you take a good look at some of the earlier publications , a lot of the drawings and photo,s actually show this feature . Looking closer you can often see the different tripod fitting in the underside of the butt group as well .
You can only assume that when getting these documents ready for issue WITH the guns they were using trails models of the gun to pose with . The difference visually would have been so small that it would not matter .
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Post by snowie on Dec 3, 2005 18:39:43 GMT 1
Going by the evidence so far, I would agree that my picture shows an early trials model of gun being used.
However , I am still in the dark over the function of the holes in the flash hider shroud. My line of thought is that they are there to pull in additional air at this point by way of induced blast at the muzzle.
Any thoughts on this?
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Post by britplumber on Dec 3, 2005 19:11:20 GMT 1
Intresting point with the holes, I've not seen the holes close up so I have no idea how they are drilled. The cone itself was there to tighten the muzzle flash, so it would seem the holes would either allow air in to limit the flash or as I can't help but think, allow the flashing gases to escape. If its the latter it may reduce recoil (depending on the angle of the holes) but render the cone useless for flash reduction.
An intresting question. No doubt somebody has the answer.
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Post by Kev on Dec 3, 2005 22:42:44 GMT 1
I would imagine the holes are there to reduce some of the pressure before the gas can expand inside the cone of the flash hider- a lower pressure reduces the efficiency of the unburn gases to burn consequently eliminating some of the flash. It is not so much the job of the cone shape of the flash hider to shape the 'flash' but to allow the gasses to expand and loose pressure in the most thermally efficient way. See - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_processIf I am talking a load of bo****ks please put me right ;D |
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Post by snowie on Dec 3, 2005 23:35:55 GMT 1
Would I be correct in saying that my flash hider question thread resulted in the first cuss on the new forum? - and by a moderator as well! lol.
I was thinking along the same lines in that the holes allow more air into the flash hider assembly so reducing the pressure at this point thereby "washing" out any flash just as Kev says.
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Post by woodsy on Dec 4, 2005 10:10:20 GMT 1
Hi Kev
You are on the ball with your answer. The cone area reduces the pressure of the expanding gases, thereby reducing the intensity of the muzzle flash and containing it within the flash hider. The holes were an experiment that failed. My own experiments with flash hiders have shown that holes near, or just forward of the muzzle (although within the flash hider) tend to show a side flash.
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Post by Kev on Dec 4, 2005 13:16:15 GMT 1
I will try not to cuss this time  Cheers for your 'hands on' experience in the matter Rod  Just as a matter of interest while 'flash' is being discussed ,Tom forwarded some info this week including a 43 dated printed document entitled 'MISCELLANEOUS NOTES' Part of this deals with Brens,flash and the use of Mk VIIIz ammunition - "Mark VIIIz being neonite loaded gives a smaller flash at night. When the Bren gun is being used for some special purpose at night,e.g.,on a patrol,it may be desirable to make use of Mark VIIIz in order to lessen flash." .......just thought I would get this in so Tom can see I really do read the stuff he passes on ! ;D |
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