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Post by alburg on Jan 5, 2006 22:30:45 GMT 1
Hi,
the Bren Saga book is confusing me a little.
it says that during the second world war 416658 Bren MkIs and MkI(M)s were produced and that 60% of them were manufactured in Canada. Which would make it 249995 Brens produced in Canada. But at the same time it says that 220000 Brens were build by Enfield so this would already make a total production of 469995 Brens. Now this figure is missing the lot size of the Monotype manufactured Brens, doesn't say anything about it in the book ( or did I miss something). And the 17335 Bren MkIs build by Lithgow.
So how many were manufactured by the Monotyp Group and how big is the total of all Bren MkI and MkI(M) produced during the second world war.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers Sven
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Post by Kev on Jan 6, 2006 0:08:13 GMT 1
Hi Sven
Monotype only made MK2 Brens making approx 83,500 guns.
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Post by alburg on Jan 6, 2006 0:31:00 GMT 1
Well I am a little confused now. The Bren gun Saga book says.
So the Monotype Scheme isn't the Monotype Group??
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Post by Kev on Jan 6, 2006 1:51:41 GMT 1
The MKI Bren may well have been the gun ordered in January 1940 , but after Dunkirk in June of that year a simpler design to speed up production was sought.Enfield carried on production with the MKI deleting non essential machining to take it to (unofficial) MKIm spec. The more simplistic design actually produced under the Monotype Corporation,the MK2 Bren would have first come off the assembly line at Redhill in 42.Parts for this would have been bought in from all the companies manufacturing component parts and assemblies within the organisation.Most noticable being Daimler who made the recievers / bodys. The Monotype Corp/Scheme/Group are one of the same. The revised BGS has allot of errors in it, the original BGS even more so  |
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Post by britplumber on Jan 6, 2006 12:19:22 GMT 1
Ok I'm really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons here!!
Inglis production was only between 85-88,000 mk1 & mk1m, alot less than stated.
Enfield mk1 & mk1m Production was approx. 250,883.
Lithgow was 17,428 (Got it right that time Kev)
Totaling between 354 to 356,000 mk1 and mk1m guns produced.
Total Bren production (all mk's) by Inglis is 220,593, give or take a thousand or so for trials, oddments etc.
Total Enfiled production 250,883.
This would mean Inglis produced about 46% and Enfield produced 54% of all War Brens (excluding Lithgow production (17,428) and mk3's (Approx 15-20,000 by war end)).
Any one got any other info to add??
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Post by Kev on Jan 6, 2006 21:46:08 GMT 1
Yes ! I have been checking the figures given by Ian Skennerton in the SAIS for the Monotype production numbers which I quoted earlier as approx 83,500. (SAIS numbers are given as 83,438) As Monotype only used - R S T U V W RA RB and as there are only 9,999 serial numbers to a letter prefix the maximum number posible would only have been 79,992. A discrepancy of nearly 3,500 ? To make the numbers worse Skennerton has detailed that 'W' only ran to 8,320 and 'RA' to 6,695. This gives a figure of 75,009 which makes a shortfall of 8,429 ! Even allowing for trials/test/odd ball guns that's a big shortfall in numbers. Anyone any ideas how the MK2 conversions to MK4 where serial numbered ? might account for some of the number ?  |
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Post by britplumber on Jan 6, 2006 22:36:58 GMT 1
A very good point Kev, seems quite a few calculations have been completely ballsed up!
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Tim
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by Tim on Jan 7, 2006 21:11:24 GMT 1
The discrepancy is probably the volume of kevins collection
;D
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Post by Kev on Jan 7, 2006 22:19:22 GMT 1
If only ! .......any luck with that photo Tim ? Britplumber , have you a higher serial number for Monotype than RB 7114 which came rom MP's first list ? |
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Post by Kev on Jan 7, 2006 23:32:31 GMT 1
While Monotype is in the frame , does anyone know what items\parts they made in the 1st WW for machine guns ?
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Post by alburg on Jan 9, 2006 19:52:50 GMT 1
Thank you !! To all of you I really apreciate your help  Cheers Sven |
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Post by britplumber on Jan 9, 2006 20:29:46 GMT 1
If only ! .......any luck with that photo Tim ? Britplumber , have you a higher serial number for Monotype than RB 7114 which came rom MP's first list ? Nope, RB7114 is the Last Monotype serial number I have. I can safely say that Monotype guns appear to be some of the hardest to find. Most people I've had monotype serials from think they have an Enfield gun esp. those early guns with the 'D' Daimler bodies. |
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Post by Kev on Jan 9, 2006 23:19:17 GMT 1
Cheers plumber  I rang Monotype up today to see if I could go through their archives, but they have thrown all their non typeface stuff away......probably burned !  The last remaining piece of 2nd ww history was the underground testing range which was filled in about 10 years ago The usless info- most of the true type fonts on our computers software was designed by Monotype |
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Post by alburg on Jan 16, 2006 20:06:03 GMT 1
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Post by Kev on Jan 17, 2006 1:09:56 GMT 1
Incase you have to have excel to read above but haven't -  Richard do you want to move this part of the thread ? |
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