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Post by hattypig on Feb 5, 2006 20:16:32 GMT 1
So I've got my first bren in a case. Lots of liitle wooden bits 'n edges in the case to hold accessories. Anyone able to tell me what goes where?
cheers
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Post by hattypig on Feb 5, 2006 21:53:44 GMT 1
Excellent Kev. Many thanks.
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Post by missingsomething on Jul 25, 2009 21:39:09 GMT 1
Wanted to rehash the old question. Is there a list of the accessories that went into the MkI and MkII transit chests.... been looking through my stuff and cant readily locate anything that specifically mentions what goes in the boxes and where....
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Post by tom on Jul 26, 2009 10:07:00 GMT 1
tried the link and it laughed at me!
What am I doing wrong?
Confused currently of North Oxford...
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Post by Richard Fisher on Jul 26, 2009 13:06:42 GMT 1
The old forum was disabled due to Network54.com taking an interesting stance on gun-related information! All the old archived messages were lost so we would have to start from scratch on this questions.
Rich
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Post by Kev on Jul 26, 2009 15:21:36 GMT 1
I'm sure this is on here somewhere but can't find a search criteria to find it !
Anyway this is the text to the article writen by Peter Laidler,I'll see if I can find the drawing or original thread.
Firstly, take a look at the extreme LEFT hand side of the chest when you open it. There are two recesses each about 1.2” in diameter and about 1.5” deep. The front of the two holes has a wooden block that rotates to partially cover it (shown as “A” in the attached diagram). You might think that a couple of spare gas plugs fit into these holes, but you’d be wrong. In fact the front hole, with the wooden cover, was designed to accommodate the original woollen design “Mop, cleaning cylinder, MkI” (CI/BE8829). The cover was to prevent the mop from falling out. The rearmost hole was to accommodate the original fearsome wire “Brush, Cleaning Cylinder MkI” (CI/BE6120). The wire brush was mushroom shaped, was pressed in head first, and held itself in with friction. Now, these ORIGINAL brushes differed from the current brushes in that they had a brass, male threaded portion that screwed into the brass, internally threaded end of the Original hickory “Rod, Cleaning Cylinder MkI” (CI/BE8204). I have only seen two of these old original hickory gas cylinder cleaning rods, and each was marked “W-3.9.” When the original “Rod, Cleaning Cylinder MkI” was later converted to accept the Mk2 mop and brush, it became the Mk1/1 version. Later rods manufactured to MkI/I spec were identified as the Mk2 version.
From this you will see that the ORIGINAL cylinder rod and mop brush were brass ended, with a male end for the mop/brush and female ended for the rod. The later and still current Mk2 rod (CI/BE4199) is plain wood with a pair of recesses down the first 2” of its length. A steel or brass ferrule (CI/BE4200) slides along the rod, and this keeps the extended wire retaining arms of the Mk2 mop (CI/BE9207) and the bush (CI/BE4198) in place within the 2” long recesses. The Mk2 brush is the same shape and diameter as the mop and both are about 2” long. Thereby hangs a tale. Because the Mk2 brush and mop are LONGER than the original MkI types, they will fit into the holes; but once the chest is tipped over, they fall out The MOP, because the wooden cover will not close over it (due to the length don’t forget!), and the brush because the Mk2 brush is not mushroom shaped. It falls out because there is no friction to hold it in! Simple isn’t it? The answer was to keep them both in the holdall.
Now, let’s look into the centre top of the front wall of the chest, shown as “B” in the diagram. You will see a rotating tab between two fixed blocks of wood. The tab should be rotated upwards and the wooden cylinder cleaning rod can be slipped into the right hand block; the gun cradle then dropped into the left hand block.
The tab can be rotated down so as to secure the rod firmly in place.
At the extreme right hand side of the front, shown as “C” in the diagram, the magazine can be inserted so that the base plate is level with the top of the inside of the chest. No problems there I hope! Same for the actual gun itself. It can only go in one way, butt to the right, muzzle to the left. The MkI butt handle remains attached to the gun when the gun is fitted into the chest. But it’s what goes UNDER the gun that is next on the list.
Against the back wall of the chest sits the second barrel. The second barrel was marked with the gun number followed by the letter “S” to indicate “second” barrel; but I was advised to never mark the second barrel with the letter “S” because it became known as the “spare” or “second” barrel and, as such, it was treated as a spare instead of being treated as an actual gun barrel.
If you have a Bren or an L4, treat both barrels the same and use them equally. The 7.62mm L4A1, 2 and 3 guns have two barrels, but the L4A4 has one chrome plated barrel, and VERY successful it is too. But more about the barrel. In the Mk3 and L4 chest, there should be another block of wood at the left hand/muzzle end, shown as “D” in the diagram, to prevent the shorter barrel sliding backwards and forwards and eventually out of its crutch, even though it should be held firmly with the wooden tapered locating peg. If you have a Mk3 or L4 gun, make sure yours has this extra block of wood screwed in place. The carrying handle should lie against the back inside wall of the chest.
Ah yes. Under the centre section of the gun there is a small squared off section about 3.5” x 3.5” square, identified by the letter “E” in the diagram. About 4” above this, on the front inside of the chest, is another small rotating block of wood. I have been asked many, many times just what fits in here. The answer is quite simple. It was to accommodate a small 3.5” by 3.5” x 3.75” tall tin of grease. Those tins that I have soon were all marked on the base “NORTH LONDON TINWARE CO. HOXTON, 1926 (or 1929), and have a 2” round flip- top lid. This grease was very thick and was used as a general lubricant for the return spring of the earliest guns. The tins first started their lives as part of the equipment of the Lewis guns and are quite rare now. The tin of grease has not been included as part of the Bran CES since about 1940, but the chests were manufactured to accommodate it regardless! That is the story there!
Now to unravel another link with the Bren guns past. Look carefully at the extreme left inner side of the Bren Chest, alongside the wood block used to hold the Cylinder mop and brush. You will a 6” long x 1” x 1” block of wood that will rotate about a screw securing it to the front inside wall of the chest - identified by the letter “F” in the drawing. Look opposite this, and you will find a small half-moon or crescent shaped recess machined out of the rear inside wall - identified by the letter “G” in the drawing.
Three other parts deserve a mention too. The long holdall or spare barrel carrier could be emptied, the contents fitted into the respective place within the chest or holdall, then folded up and stashed anywhere it fitted. The same could not be said of the holdall. This had to be filled with its many contents, but fitted in the space between the middle and left hand gun cradle. There were two distinct types of cleaning rod for the Bren, the rotating handle Mk2B type or the “T” handle shape Mk5 rod. These rods fit into leather loops within the lid of the chest - identified by the letter “K” in the drawing, but don’t worry if the cleaning rod is missing. I’ll tell you why next, but back to the cleaning rod. Original chests did not have the leather cleaning rod retaining straps, and in July 1940 an Instruction was issued that the chest be fitted with them and thereafter be known as the Mk1” chest.
Right, before I go, it’s about time to tell you about the other parts that make up the CES of the Bren. This is how it stood in 1956.
Item Where Stored
Bren gun Mk1, 2, 2/I, 3 or 4. Chest
Second barrel assembly. Chest or holdall
Magazine, Bren, x 1 Chest
Sling, Bren gun with catches Chest or gun
Mounting, tripod Mk2 or 2/I Store
Brush, cleaning magazine Holdall
Brush, cleaning cylinder Holdall or wallet
Mop, cleaning cylinder Holdall or wallet
Rod, cleaning cylinder Chest or holdall
Can, oil MkI or 3 Wallet or holdall
Holdall Mk 1 Chest
Tool, removing fouling Holdall or wallet
Wallet, spare part, MkI Chest or holdall
Pullthrough, double. Wallet
Pullthrough, single Wallet
Gauze Wallet
Box, spare parts, (containing) Wallet
Extractor Spare parts box
Spring, extractor stay Spare parts box
Spring, piston post Spare parts box
Spring, firing pin Spare parts box
Stay, extractor Spare parts box
Plug, clearing,. ruptured cartridge Spare parts box
Bottle oil, Mk4 or 5 Wallet
Tool, combination Mk2 Wallet
Valaise, Bren (airborne troops only) Store
Box, magazine Bren x 2 Store
Magazine, Bren, x24 Store
I have examined about 10 years worth of CES’S for Brens, and many anomalies seem to arise. For example, originally the cleaning rod MG Mk2B or 5 was carried within loops on the inside the lid of the Bren chest; then it was deleted; and in 1970 it appears once again, but this time as the screw together jointed rod that comes in sections. This time, there were bore cleaning brushes too. Note that there were no bore brushes in the 1956 CES listed above, Just pull- throughs, 4”x 2” flannelette and gauze, plus lashings of elbow grease. (And woe betide you if the bore wasn’t gleaming!)
Many other parts appear in some parts lists, such as firing pin protrusion gauges, reamers, the magazine dent removing tool, and the Mk1 combination tool – the subject of another article. Although these were for the Bren, they were for Armourers use only, and were not included in the CES of the Bren.
Hope this helps, Kevin
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