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Post by britplumber on Mar 16, 2006 16:29:20 GMT 1
Does anybody know when Lithgow changed from the mk1 to the mk1 upgraded model?
I have a mk1 upgraded A7??? (cant remember the serial off hand) (was built as an upgraded model) dated 1943 with a mk2 barrel dated 1/43, and barrel number 15'000 ish.
Could any one with a mk1 upgraded, pass me there barrel numbers, barrel date and gun serial (I will probably have the latter already!) and we will see if we can work out when the change over was.
I'm already finding out how rare original Lithgow mk1's are. Most have been FTR'd and upgraded in the 50's.
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Post by britplumber on Mar 16, 2006 16:31:29 GMT 1
In fact, sod it, anyone with a Lithgow (any) post your barrel numbers and gun number!
Tim and Kev should have nice low barrel numbers and dates!!
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Post by woodsy on Mar 16, 2006 20:16:19 GMT 1
I have just consulted my copy of Australian Service MG's by Skennerton but it is not very helpful. I am of the opinion that the changeover occured in late '41 - very early '42, probably about gun #A1500. This is based on the distinct lack of Lithgow Mk I's, and the fact that the Aussies were not slow to adopt improvements that showed an obvious production or financial advantage. The reason that they never produced the Mk II and later styles was that their production tooling (locally made at considerable expense) was producing Mk I(M) guns very efficently. The cosmetic changes from the Mk I to the Mk I(M) suited them fine.  |
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Post by britplumber on Mar 16, 2006 22:24:16 GMT 1
Hi Rod,
It must be later than that as Ive got A2398 and A2597, both with mk1* barrels and the first serial numbred to the gun. Both barrels have not been altered in anyway and are dated 4'42 and 9'42, the 4'42 dated barrel has had the barrel number electric penciled out for some reason but the later 9'42 barrel is number 9662 which, I would think, must put the mk1 guns into the A4800 range.
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Post by britplumber on Mar 16, 2006 22:47:16 GMT 1
Incidently, the lowest dated and numbered mk2 barrel I have is 1'43 number 15833 and was fitted to B1276.
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Post by woodsy on Mar 17, 2006 2:55:42 GMT 1
Perhaps they are scarce because you've got them all!!  According to Skennerton they were up to #A3267 by 30 June 1942, after having made 3081 in the 12 months to that date. I am assuming they were on the Mk I(M) by then. Your records may help there. I will talk to my mate at Lithgow and seen if they have any definitive info. I am I correct in thinking you are refering to the change from the 'double dovetail' or do you mean the change to the Mk II barrel. My gun with the MkII barrel (B6182, barrel matching) was made in 1944. |
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Post by britplumber on Mar 17, 2006 11:07:55 GMT 1
Hi Rod, I'm trying to find out when they changed from mk1 (modified) with mk1* barrell to the mk1 with mkII barrell. I can now tell that mk1* barrell production ended between September 1942 and January 1943.
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Post by 1916holton on Mar 17, 2006 18:24:04 GMT 1
FYI
There is a guy on Gunbroker.com selling Bren Mk2 barrels for
$35 U.S, he also has lower recievers for $20 U.S. I ordered one of each from him and both were in better shape than what came with my Bren parts kit. In fact the lower reciever even had a nice pistol grip still attached also in better condition than my what came in my kit. Well worth the money and at that price no need not to stock up guys. Parts are drying up faster than a puddle on the pavement in the desert over here in the states. One supplier was bought of his entire inventory in a few days.
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Post by Kev on Mar 17, 2006 21:31:20 GMT 1
Latest MKI Lithgow barrel I have is A3437 (42) this is on a D profile (Enfield type MKIm) gas port Bren. Rod could you also get the serial number for the FLS Singleton have ?  Would also been interested to find out when Lithgow changed over to the simplified (like Enfield MKIm ) lower/ sliding butt group. ;D |
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Post by britplumber on Mar 17, 2006 21:41:44 GMT 1
Latest MKI Lithgow barrel I have is A3437 (42) this is on a D profile (Enfield type MKIm) gas port Bren. KEV, CAN YOU STILL MAKE OUT THE BARREL NUMBER AND PROOF DATE? I HOPE IT WAS PROOFED LATER THAN SEPTEMBER 1942 |
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Post by Kev on Mar 17, 2006 21:59:34 GMT 1
That is the barrel number,will check the date on the barrel as date I gave was from the reciever. While I have a look here are some early production figures (inc tripods)   |
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Post by Kev on Mar 17, 2006 22:07:38 GMT 1
A3437 barrel date is 6 42 ......sorry !
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Post by britplumber on Mar 17, 2006 22:35:19 GMT 1
Kev, there should be a 4 or 5 digit number on the top or slightly right of top on the barrel. It will probably be between 9'000 and 10'000. Each Barrel has its own production number seperate to the gun number, the mk2 barrels numbers followed on from the mk1* barrel numbers. I've narrowed the mk1* to mk2 barrel change to between Sept '42 and January '43 and Barrel numbers 9662 (Mk1*) and 15'833.
So thats no more than 15'833 and no less than 9662 mk1 barrels produced at Lithgow. If you take it that there were 2 barrels per gun I would guess the change over to be between Gun serials A4731 and A7916.
This cant be 100% true as I know that the assembler would just pick a Barrel out of the parts bin at random, and barrel number 15'833 actually was fitted to gun number B1276 (late '43).
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Post by Kev on Mar 17, 2006 22:48:15 GMT 1
barrel number 6811 or 1189 depending on which way up you look at it ......very interesting |
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Post by britplumber on Mar 17, 2006 22:51:56 GMT 1
All my numbers are stamped front to back read from the left. I would now guess it as 6811 as my 9'42 is 9662.
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According to Skennerton they were up to #A3267 by 30 June 1942, after having made 3081 in the 12 months to that date. I am assuming they were on the Mk I(M) by then. Your records may help there. I will talk to my mate at Lithgow and seen if they have any definitive info. I am I correct in thinking you are refering to the change from the 'double dovetail' or do you mean the change to the Mk II barrel. My gun with the MkII barrel (B6182, barrel matching) was made in 1944.
