A $1600 semi-auto Bren receiver (& Airborne stuff)

[Kev]

They were (possibly) used D- Day plus a few days as BSA's in house appraisal of their war effort in their book 'The other Battle' (cheers Pheonix) shows -



Warwick University who hold BSA's records can confirm this and latter orders for 'folding Bren tripods'

Trying to find photographic / documentry evidence of use has proved rather elusive

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Interesting list which makes you wonder what they were thinking about while packing. Send only 18 Stens, 0 Brens but 170 Bren Tripods?

You'd think they would want 6-pounder A/T rounds added in.

I've seen some of the drop lists for Overlord and they also raise your eyebrows in wonder.

[privatefjordy]

Tom, David,

Could be that the 30 x Vickers LMG .303" listed are a Typo that should read Bren LMG .303"?

[Richard Fisher]

I have to agree with George. This listing of re-supply would have been that managed by the RASC and RAOC and not the individual unit 'First-Line-Resupply' that would have included a greater percentage of personal weapons. If I can find a way to split this topic, I will, as we have gone quite a way from the original thread.

Rich

[tom]

Could indeed be, but then no Vickers in the resupply. It would certainly be a lot easier to drop Brens.

Would there have been such a large demand for replacement Brens, as losses mounted Brens would have been recovered in preference to rifles or SMGs (OK some would be destroyed when their crews where knocked out but alot would have been taken up by the rest of the section). Just a thought, not my period so don't know much about the battle (classic excuse!).

It would be interesting to know what they requested as opposed to what they were dropped as part of a plan. If I remember right wasn't there big problems with communications?

ATB

Tom

[Kev]

I went to the Airborne Forces Museum at Aldershot a few years ago to try and get some info but they didn't know what a folding / Mk2* Bren tripod was. (they only have a MkI on display)
so no help there

[Kev]

In the book mentioned 'The Fight to Sustain' by Frank Steer that details the list, does the author give a source for the information given in the list ?

[horsa (David Gordon)]

kev said:

In the book mentioned 'The Fight to Sustain' by Frank Steer that details the list, does the author give a source for the information given in the list ?

I haven't seen the book but saw the previously attached scan and wondered the same thing. In my Equipment of the WWII Tommy book, I put in a retyped version of one of the air re-supply code lists. The list in original format would not have conveyed to the smaller format of my book so I typed and formated it. I don't think I changed anything but you can imagine that it would be very easy for someone to abbreviate or substitute one word for another so it would fit on a line or to maintain spacing in a table. Not to mention possible typos when reading a long listing.

Anyway....first thing I though when I read the tripod entry was they all fold. Did the author key in the exact text? Was "folding" the buzz word for Mark 2* model at the time? And more importantly, why don't I own one in my collection

Tom's research proves they existed but I still wonder if they were used that extensively at Arnhem. Maybe some mission planner back in Engand thought sending in the special new triopds after the fact might turn the tide in favor of the 1st Airborne? Still seems odd to not have photographic evidence. The Germans were very good at documenting everything and they would have captured several examples if they were there.

[tom]

How goods your metal working David as I've the drawings for the Mk 2* ;-{D)

I'm thinking that if its not a mistake the 170 Mk 2*s dropped must have been part of a preplanned resupply for individual units as I can't imagine anyone asking for them at the expense of more ammo or food once they landed.

Yup, the Airborne tripod (one of the post war CES makes it very clear that its for para units only) was refered to as the folding version.

Phoenix, does the book say where the various statistics come from?

ATB

Tom

[Kev]

Anyway....first thing I though when I read the tripod entry was they all fold.

They all fold ,but only the MK2* will fold to fit into a drop container ;D

[horsa (David Gordon)]

Realise the regular tripod wouldn't fit in a drop container but it would fit inside a pannier and they were used extensively for air re-supply at Arnhem.

Can you imagine the logistics of actually getting a quanitity of tripods by air and then trying to get them to the people that might need them with the fighting spread out like it was. Ammunition and food distribution was hard enough with the shortages due to mis-drops.

For the effort, it would have been more practical to container drop a Bren with folding tripod and a supply of ammunition along with loaded magazines. At least that way you had everything you needed at once if the container were recovered.

[Kev]

I don't know enough about the re-supply at Arnheim to say at what stage or date items were dropped,how they would have been packed or if similar items would have been spread out for dropping on different planes

I would like to see the source for the 'drop list' and a more detailed breakdown of what was sent when.

Anyone any idea what number of supply aircraft perished before their load was delivered ?

Or a more detailed manifest of dates / supplies dropped ?

[story]

The Vickers .303 LMGs in that list were probably the Vickers K guns, as used by Gough's Recon Squadron at Arnhem. One per jeep, not the two usually thought.